Do you want to see health certs online?

[one eyed jack]

This has been a subject that seems to come up every 6 months or so and feel it is more than overdue now and something should be done about it.

I have had a lot of opinion from girls over the years who thought it was a great idea. I am relying on your support now if you wish to see it in effect.

It will require the support of the entire industry (not just UKAP) as this is something that will only work with everyones cooperation.

Please vote in the polls now.

The result will determine if we should even think about going ahead with this seriously or just ditch it and leave things the way they are with fake certs and sti's on the increase

This is really up to you in this industry to make this happen or not.

Vote wisely people.

[AM69GIRLS]

I’m not sure if this is the right place to reply. I know there’s been a big debate on BGAFD on this subject but we just don’t post there anymore only for advertising. I personally think it’s a great idea however my concerns:
1) Who decides who gets a password? The one man band producing POV for a website is he seen as a valid producer than a million pound business? The only was I see you controlling passwords would be all producers to become members of UKAP.
2) The US and UK are different in that 90% of US porn is produced in one small area. Whereas geographically porn is produce all over the UK. Makes it hard for anything to be central.
3) Models in the US are normally signed up to an agency. That agency takes 30%+ of earnings even if models find the work themselves. This just does not happen in the UK.
I believe it would work here in the UK but there needs to be a change of attitude from all 3 parties, producers, models, and agencies. I wish you good luck!

[one eyed jack]

1. Yes AM69 the one man Johny camcorder (that used t be me) is very much eligible to be part of this as they make up the industry as well. Its not that difficult to determine who is producing from who is not because everyone wanting access to the site will have to register. So it will be open to registrants only.

2. Exactly why this has to be the way because the AIM approach was debated years ago when the 30 day testing came in and because of the point you made it was deemed unworkable. Which is why this is the next option until something better comes along.

3. We are aiming to make this service available for free to the industry to promote more interest in it and yes there are suporters of this from all three groups you mentioned.

[TGITC]

You go Terry. Make the industry safer... Screw those with something to hide at the BGAFD...

[maverick]

Being a one man johnny camcord guy at the moment :D, I've voted for yes, because I put someones life before profit any day. Call me crazy, but wouldn't having a system like this in place put everyone at ease during a shoot and that in turn make for a much better shoot etc? Being newish to this game, maybe I am looking at this with different eyes as it were, but I for one would like to be able to access a database before a shoot, know a model (male or female) has valid certs and then be able to focus on the shoot. I would of course ask for the certs at the shoot as well. We are all in this game to make a few pounds and anything that makes knowing that models your booking are clear of STD's etc would I think improve the whole industry as a whole.

[KazB]

Yes yes yes!

Health and welfare should be the main priority.

I think if your not prepared to do this you have to question whether you are in the right industry if you are putting personal reasons above the health of everyone esle. Sorry - blunt but those are my thoughts.

[jimslip]

Sometimes I have to despair, as if it's not only extremely difficult and expensive for people to just keep their certs up to date, now it is suggested that we have to now scan them or photograph them and place them on-line.

Are you all completely mad?

The whole point of these tests is firstly that they are confidential and secondly that they are a private concern between the producer and performers. You are suggesting that someone has a hard disc under his bed, which will one day contain thousands of personal details of different performers, to do with what he so chooses.

What's the point of "Blurring out the details", these details make the test actually worth something, otherwise sodding Mickey Mouse could have had the test, Christ Almighty!

Maybe the hard disc is stolen and the information published. Doesn't anyone realise that most Life Assurance agreements have a clause that obligates that you confirm that you have never had an HIV test, for any reason. This is why GUM clinics are so careful with the info that you give them.

So are you all prepared to supply someone, who may or may not be around in a few years all this delicate information about yourself, in his bedroom, that he could just as well toss on a skip at some time in the future?

The government can't even secure their databases so what hope in hell, has one of us, against a determined hacker, corporate or otherwise who has a vested interest in gaining this information.

Hasn't anyone also realised that this is a licence to forge tests? Anyone can knock one up and it will be impossible to tell on line whether it is genuine. I hope to God this isn't the underlying reason for the big, "Yes" vote.

I will definately boycott this stupid idea, I want to see an original document from an institution, either hospital or clinic, on its original letterhead, not a copy, a fax, or on-line.

I personally will NEVER accept an on-line cert and if anyone turns up with no paperwork and the explanation, "Don't worry it's on- line", I'll put them straight back on the train from whence they came!

I also discussed this with Frank Thring, the director and producer and he also confirmed that he will not accept an on-line test.

[one eyed jack]

Jim. Read: http://www.ukadultproducers.com/board/showthread.php?t=1406

[kendo]

Hi Guys,

I think the way things are run regarding HIV tests and results in Prague and the like is a great step in the right direction. This does not give the right to the model to forget their test, indeed I will still be asking as I do on every shoot to every model be it here in the UK or in Hungary or Prague or anywhere for that matter to still turn up with their original in date test. However if the test is put up on a secure server site which is password protected that allows the producer to download and print the current certificate and not be able to alter its state in anyway then this can only be a positive thing.

I cannot see the negatives about doing things this way, I cannot see what the hell Dave is talking about, as usual. There is no conspiracy theory within our industry just a lot of models who like to change their own certificate to save them some money or indeed time.

I am totally for this but it has to be uploaded by the hospital and not an individual person, this is how it is done I believe in the countries that I have visited and filmed in. The test is not uploaded by the model agency.

Kenny

[one eyed jack]

Thanks for the constructive opinion Kenny. Its the kind of positive thing Ive come to know and expect from you.

The uploading from the clinic is a possibility and I will arrange for two reps from Indigo and a new clinic to be at the next meeting.

Dont forget Steve Honest and Elle Brook (representing Blue Birds interest) and maybe Harry from Relish (who has expressed interest but will elaborate further today) will be coming with Jason Maskell from Harmony and I would suggest this be the later part of the meeting say at 4:30 so we can get our usual stuff out the way because i think this is going to be a hot topic! Oh and a few models want to sit in and offer their opinions too.

Maybe we should get security in :-)

Whatever anyones views are on this I was suprised that it was such a hot topic. i got say thanks to Steve aka SGS for suggesting it :-)

[Big John Studd]

This is just pie in the sky and a waste of time.

Will there be a list of places people can go to get tested?

Who will run this project?

A plan should have been drawn up to see if it can be done.

What is the point of having a meeting about it if the idea does'nt even work?

[Big John Studd]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea.

I just don't see how it would work and it would cost money to run.

[one eyed jack]

Big John Stud: Please read before trashing ideas. Contructive opinions are welcome. http://www.ukadultproducers.com/board/showthread.php?p=5720#post5720

[Big John Studd]

I asked if it could work.

I did'nt trash it.

[one eyed jack]

Then i believe yes it can work for the function it will serve which was explained already.

[Big John Studd]

Have you got the clinics on board?

[one eyed jack]

Not yet. But i'm hoping to get Ceri from the Indigo Clinic and Dr MacSweeny at the next UKAP meeting to see if it can be done.

[Big John Studd]

If they don't come on board then the idea is dead in the water.

That's the point I'm making.

[one eyed jack]

No. Not really. This business is based on trust and what it will come down to if it goes ahead those who do make the effort to get their tests online will be suspicious of those who dont.

At least girls can use it as an excuse not to give certain producers who dont perform "friendly" blowjobs.

Some might think that in itself is a worthy cause.

[Big John Studd]

How much would it cost to set up and run?

[one eyed jack]

It might not have to cost a thing but 10 minutes of peoples time every month BJS

If it costs, it will have to be paid for.

[kendo]

Hi Guys,

I received this today:

Hello Kenny

I read your comments on the UKAP forum with interest.

Please know that The Regents Park Clinic is willing to assist any clients and contacts who require discrete and confidential Health Certification: http://www.adult-entertainer-medicals.com/locat.htm

If I can be of any further help or you would like to discuss group bookings and accounts, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Michael Hodges
Marketing Consultant

Doctorcall Medical Services Group
121 Harley Street, London W1G 6AX
Tel: 0844 257 0345 Fax: 0844 264 0477
Registered in England Number 2352745

[one eyed jack]

Duly noted Kendo. Thanks. I will be speaking to the clinics shortly and making an announcement to all regarding the next meeting by the end of this week.

[myson]

Terry,

If this would help prevent the spread of STI's or (god forbid) HIV then it's got to be worth giving it a go.

Yes, there will be teething problems on the way and some things may have to be changed before it works properly.

If it's tried but doesn't work, at least you/we/us can say that we've given it a go.

Myson

PS.
I believe quite a few performers in the North West use Medi-Lab for their tests and certs. Have you contacted them to see if they would be interested in coming onboard?

Here's their contact details:
Brian Owen: Managing Director on 01942 260414
Gillian Fox: Head Nurse on 0161 877 6336
Website: http://www.medi-lab.net/

[Alexis Silver]

Hey there Terry,

Whilst I applaud you greatly for having the balls and foresight to do this, I just don't know if it will ever be possible. As you know, I work mostly in the States and all talent is tested through AIM Healthcare who have a central database in LA and have "drawing" stations all over the country.

The issues I think you will come across in the UK is that a) The Data Protection Act and the limitations it imposes on any kind of database and b) How would this be maintained and regulated? I, for one, would never accept a test scanned in by another performer unless I knew them well.

Also, I'll be damned if I'm going to drag my arse down to London to get tested!!

If provisions could be made for me to test "ooop North" and for all details and records to be well maintained in a responsible and considerate manner, I would definitely be behind the idea.

That said, there's not much of a point in having an opinion as no fucker ever books me in the UK anyway!!!

Alexis x

[one eyed jack]

Hi Alexis,

Long time no see.

All valid point that have answers but wil be confirmed in December over a meeting with producers/ models and a medical representative from the clinic.

All I can say at this stage is it looks very promising but unless it is in practice its no point actually getting everyone too excited just yet.

Work is in progress so watch this space.

Not sure why you are not getting work here but I always thought you worked in the US anyway. Next time you are back in the UK let me know and I'll see what strings I can pull.

Also , maybe everyone thinks you are charging a lot more now that you are working in the US. Its your right of course but its also down to whether the producer wants to pay US fees.

[ukgirlsdownloads]

I wanted to use my real name on the vote because I have nothing to hide, but for some reason I cannot sign in using it, so had to rejoin this site.

First off , I think it is wrong that UKAP have seen fit to publish the names of those who have voted, keeping names private maybe would have encouraged others to vote.

This whole situation has been handled badly from the outset. It should never have been posted on an open forum, which incidentally is a fans forum, but Terry has told me the reasons why he did so. There are many postings on there, from supporters and opponents of the scheme that are borderline libellous and some postings contain veiled threats.

I have voted no because I feel that UKAP do not have any authority to store or publish medical documents or should even have any access to them in any way. Has UKAP sought legal advice as to that situation?

I am not against a proper scheme being put in place, but hearts and minds have to be won over and the proper authorities running it.

Walter

[merlin9]

i would be happy to do this. ok what testing centers would do it though? would we all have to use one center and they post our results? or have you asked the nhs doctors if they will help in this matter?

[one eyed jack]

Ooh I really resisted answering questions this week but you hit the bingo buttons Merlin.

The reason why is that the info I have is soooo good that until I see it is actually coming into effect then I or someone else will make an official announcment.

Please understand I am not trying to avoid the questions but the small percentage of negative people have been acting like anarchists to get in the way of this issue that I deliberately stepped back just to get on with making it happen.

So watch this space for more info.

[one eyed jack]

I wanted to use my real name on the vote because I have nothing to hide, but for some reason I cannot sign in using it, so had to rejoin this site.

First off , I think it is wrong that UKAP have seen fit to publish the names of those who have voted, keeping names private maybe would have encouraged others to vote.

This whole situation has been handled badly from the outset. It should never have been posted on an open forum, which incidentally is a fans forum, but Terry has told me the reasons why he did so. There are many postings on there, from supporters and opponents of the scheme that are borderline libellous and some postings contain veiled threats.

I have voted no because I feel that UKAP do not have any authority to store or publish medical documents or should even have any access to them in any way. Has UKAP sought legal advice as to that situation?

I am not against a proper scheme being put in place, but hearts and minds have to be won over and the proper authorities running it.

Walter

Hi Walter,

That is entirely my fault. I started the poll and wanted to see who was voting against it. I honestly didnt think it was a big deal as you can tell who was going to vote against it by the negative comments flying around.

In fact the clinics will be participating by handling this. Not UKAP.

People forget that UKAP are a bunch of individual producers who have their own business interests and wouldnt have the resources to manage a time consuming task of making certs online and nor would I expect any individual to willingly take on this project.

The access to information will be private and arranged by the clinics for those who sign up to the clinics but again I will provide information on this when the time is right.

There are some who were negative about this that are privy to the goings on and I'm glad they now have renewed faith in this.

I'm just stunned that people thinkI know nothing about the data protection laws. I also have an advisor friend about health and safety at work too.

Producers should understand that unless you participate in making this industry look self regulated that you may possibly be deemed responsible under the act if something was to ever happen on your shoot.

You are not going to be covered by a clause in a model release that is not legally recognisable in a court of law. I am not scare mongering but this is a glaring reality if the shit ever did hit the fan.

Aside from all that...Do you really want the headache anyway? its bestter to avoid and by adopting this new scheme is a step in the right direction in protecting everybody. Not just the stds but the other legal stuff that could come out of it.

I cant see it happening personally but what if it did? You got to look at the what ifs as well.

This isnt UKAP controlled at all. So dont worry you dont have to sign up to UKAP to participate.

[Dazza]

May i just say that i think you are doing a sterling job Terry and i'm sure the dissenting minority have only helped to fan the flames of your objective, so to speak.

The point you make about "due diligence" is spot on and not one that should be taken likely.

[Dazza]

or "lightly" even...lol

[Paul Taylor]

I just want to add to Alexis Silvers post, I would love to book her for my site, however since she was taken off be-seen-here.co.uk I havent been able to get hold of her details.

I think she would be great for my site and fit in great

Paul

[one eyed jack]

May i just say that i think you are doing a sterling job Terry and i'm sure the dissenting minority have only helped to fan the flames of your objective, so to speak.

The point you make about "due diligence" is spot on and not one that should be taken likely.

Hell yeah! Thanks for the words of support which was more than the negatives. No doubt a certain forum and its members are having a field day dissecting and ridiculing everything I say but the weird thing is..they are talking about little old me. Not nice mind but hey, you gotta roll with the punches.

In a weird way the negatives have been like power ups to pac man :cool:

[Steve Honest]

hello
My name is Steve and im the Studio Manager at Bluebirdfilms, and this is my first post ,
i would like to say, that i cant imagine any argument from a producer that would not favor the option to verify a performers Certs and tests online.
At bluebird I shoot anything up to 15 scences a week, I have a complaince officer whos job it is to look after performer agreements and certs and ID, and we take the issue of complaince as seirously as it deserves, there are times when a cert is brought to my attention, and i have to check wether i want to accept it as real, and to have the option to do this online, particularly with Euro performers , who 's labs first languge may not be English.

[one eyed jack]

Hi Steve

I think its great that Blue Bird are behind this and together we can all make that much needed change to the system as the present system is just not working that well and as i said earlier (which was endorsed by the docs at the meeting the other week) that merely inspecting tests gives you protection against liability should a case arise from a situation.

So far things are looking good and hopefully this will work out pending the outcome of the December 5th meeting. I hear that Regents Park Clinic are going to be there as well so thats three reps coming down.

Look forward to seeing you there too Steve.

[Steve Honest]

Thank you for your kind response,
while the luxery of indemnity against prosocution is a lovely thing to have I would like to belive that foremost we all care about the health of our performers. After all, health,and peoples safety must be a top priority.
At Bluebird, we recognise the value of our performers, any aid to help us protect them, and us from the rouge elements makes this a better and safer working enviroment for us all, industry wide.

steve

[one eyed jack]

I'm with you on that Steve but I do have to appeal to the cynics as well who think just because they hire someone to do a job and dont partake in the action that they dont have to care about whether the talent has tests or not as long as they agree to work with each other.

This attitude of course is not acceptable and could turn around and bite that producer on the arse later.

This is just a reality check to everyone to be vigilant with tests and I have had direct response from producers who have taken this line of thought which is why I put it that way.

Besides that, I have a lot of friends in the industry as well and would prefer to be seen to do something now rather than later if the proverbial bomb drops.

[Steve Honest]

HI there
I am following with intrest, the discussion that is evolving on BGfad,
While i am amazed at anybody who thinks that this is a bad idea , I concur that peoples privacy must be respected

but , A person must have a Cert to perform, and if the Labs control how the information is Displayed, so that a persons address and other non health information can be protected, and that Producers , models and any other browser may only view the information that is needed , then what is wrong with that?

I think along the lines of, I wont book a model or perfomer that has no tests, If i see a iffy cert, or my compliance officer flags a problem with a cert , then i ask questions and i make phone calls to labs, I tell the performer that im making checks, and that unless im satisifed there cert is genuine they will not be working that day.

Im told by Performers that they apprciate this stringent respect for there well being, also i dont fancy a problem with the feds should my 2257 not shape up.

our options
lets ask the labs to get togethter and set it up based on perhaps the AIM model and then performers can adopt it on a voluntary basis, and perhaps responsible producers can boycott performers who are not verifiable, at there discretion? flimsy i know but a start.

Whats to prevent us?
money? Bluebird will contribute towards costs to getting this set up, we dont want to control it , that would be wrong , but if the appropaite body need funding, then we will make a sizable contribution.
thats how strongly Bluebird feels about this. strongly enough to put our money where our mouth is.
Steve Honest

[freddie]

I am speaking with the Doctor today ahead of his meeting with the Terence Higgin Trust next week.We have said that any fundraising we do in the future will go towards the Trust if they are going to do nationwide testing.I am sure that any financial support from larger companies in the industry to support them running a schemn for us would be greatly appreciated.Please feel free to PM me Steve if there is anything you would like me to put forward to the doctor

[Steve Honest]

I have no problom with keeping this in a public arena, I have a love of transparancy,
Put my name and contact details forward to them, tell them I have money to put to starting a system of online Test Database , and i hope that other producers will step forward and with us and in anyway they feel able to contribute, make this a truly safe enviroment for all the perfomers that keep our camera s rolling.!!
Steve honest

[one eyed jack]

Well I'll be the first to say that is very generous of you Steve and the kind of unity we need in this industry right now.

This issue seems to have sparked a lot of anger when people should put their emotions aside and deal with it practically. Its not for anyone to control unless you have the trsting facilities and the means to make it happen of course.

The way I see it, if the top companies are not on board and the models dont support this then its a lost cause but so far its the people that really count that are helping this forward.

That pleases me no end.

Lets make it happen so I dont have to stress about a shoot Im acting cameraman on having to deal with discrepancies in tests and witnessing both parties consenting to it. Thats the major problem withthis industry right now ad I am not comfortable with it.